Summary for January 2012 Fellowship Forum

January 28th in Edmonds, WA

Nine brothers and sisters in Christ gathered in Edmonds on January 28th, including brethren from Bellevue, Shoreline, Redmond, Port Orchard, and Edmonds. We are blessed of the Lord to be able to gather together in Jesus’ name.

Summary for January 2012 FF (pdf)

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Possible Topics for the January 28th Fellowship Forum

Possible Topics for the January 28th Fellowship Forum

1)      What does the bible say is sound doctrine?

2)      What does the bible teach that could help Calvinists and Arminians to believe the best about each other?

3)      What does baptism represent and mean, according to the Bible?

4)      What does the bible say about worship?

5)      Is Fellowship Forum biblical?

Please register and/or email us with ideas.

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Fellowship Forum to be held in Edmonds – January 28th

Next Fellowship Forum: Saturday, January 28th, 2012, in Edmonds, Washington

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October 2011 Fellowship Forum

Seven brothers and sisters in Christ gathered in Port Orchard on October 15th, including brethren from Edmonds and Purdy. We are grateful for the friendship and the fellowship in Jesus’ name.

  1. What does the New Testament teach about disciples of Jesus assembling together? What does God say is/are the purpose(s) of “assembling together” and where does He say it? From where do we get the term “the Lord’s Day?” Where does the Lord define it as different from other days, and in what ways does He say it is different? What does God say is its significance to us, and where does He reveal this? What does it mean to come together on “the Lord’s Day”? Is that a special time of worship set apart from the idea of being a living sacrifice during your regular course of living? How does living our lives as an act of continual worship relate to our gathering for a special time of corporate worship?

Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” [Matthew 18:20] The Lord wants us to gather together and Jesus is in our midst. There is something special about how the Lord works among us when we gather together. “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that
they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.” [Matthew 18:19]

Purpose for our gathering includes mutual encouragement [Hebrews 10:15-27], edification of the church [1 Corinthians 14:12, 26], and eating together [1 Corinthians 11]. A point was made that “worship” was not found in any of these New Testament verses.

When we gather together each member ought to be able to minister and to serve according to their gifts of the Holy Spirit. Each ought to be able to participate and not just those who teach. In Acts 20:7, “Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his
message until midnight.” The believers gathered to eat together and Paul spoke.
The words translated “spoke” and “message” do not require the concept of a
sermon to a captive audience, but may indicate a discussion among the brethren
with Paul.

Along with discussion about what we are to do when we gather, there was also discussion about what day to gather and the significance of that day. It was noted that some believe that the People of God should continue to observe a Saturday Sabbath day. Some believe that the Church should observe the Sabbath but that it was changed to Sunday. Others consider the Sabbath to be a type and shadow fulfilled in Jesus Christ; that Jesus is
our Sabbath-rest. Of those there are some who consider Sunday to be a day the
Church should gather and there are those who do not consider it important which
day to gather.

“So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.” [Acts 2:46, 47]

The above verse and others indicate that the Church was meeting every day. Other verses note that they met on the first day of the week, Sunday.

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet…” Revelation 1:10.

The above verse is where the term, “The Lord’s Day” is found. There are some who equate this with the first day of the week, Sunday.

One brother, who participated by email wrote:

““The Lord’s Day” was taken from a poor rendering of Revelation 1:10. It should properly read “on the Day of the Lord,” meaning the time of the Lord’s return and the subsequent events as described in Revelation.

“The Catholic Church changed the time of gathering from Sabbath to Sunday (Sun-day) in commemoration of the “venerable day of the Sun” according to Constantine’s order. The purpose was to remove “the church” from its Hebrew foundations and instill a pagan-Christian format for the institutional church system known as the Holy Roman Empire. The traditions passed on through the Reformation to Protestantism and even
Seventh-day Adventism, as well as Mormonism, etc.

“It shouldn’t matter which day the saints meet; early on they met every day of the week. That’s my two-cents’ worth, if you’d care to share it with the others.”

Romans 14:4-13 and Colossians 2:16-18 were referred to as relating to not judging one another about a day.

Additional scriptures about what we are to be and to do together were discussed.

“How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.” [1 Corinthians 14:26]

“Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God.” [Ephesians 5:17-21]

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.” [1 Corinthians 16:1, 2]

We observed that there are many instructions for us as the Church but not many specifically about what to do when we gather in our meetings.

2.     Are house churches Biblical? Are mega churches
Biblical?

The Church in the New Testament met at the temple and house to house. At the temple the apostles were arrested for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those gatherings were evangelistic. Otherwise, every gathering where the building was mentioned was in a house. [Acts 2:46, 20:20, Romans 16:5, 1 Corinthians 16:9, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 2]

In Acts 20, when Paul was speaking to the brethren who had gathered to break bread, the young man fell from the third floor. This may have been someone’s home or another kind of structure.

Clearly, a church meeting in a house is Biblical in the sense that this was the observed pattern in the New Testament. The New Testament does not require meeting in a house and it does not prohibit meeting in another type of building.

The relationships and participation and mutual edification of each member in the Church to build up one another [1 Corinthians 14] can work well in assemblies of a size that can meet in a home.

Paul teaches the principle of following the pattern of the apostle in the New Testament.

“Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.” [Philippians 3:17]

“The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.” [Philippians 4:9]

As an assembly grows larger it becomes harder for the instructions of the New Testament to be carried out.

Organization in the church is necessary as seen by Acts 6:1-7 and in 2 Timothy and Titus regarding elders and deacons.

There is no prohibition in the New Testament against large churches.

In Acts 2, 3000 men were added to the Church and in chapter 4, the total came to 5000. These are large numbers, but there is no indication they formed one church assembly. It appears from the rest of the New Testament that they met, “from house to house.”

The pattern that we see with what is now called “mega churches” is that one man is prominent in leading a particular mega church.

There are verses that indicate elders were appointed in each city [Titus 1:5, Acts 20:17], in which case perhaps there was just one elder over a house assembly. And there are verses that indicate there were multiple elders in each assembly [Acts 14:23, James 5:14].  Hebrews 13:17 refers to “they” and “them”. In either case, multiple elders are emphasized whether in a city or in an assembly. And one man having preeminence is never expressed.

The idea of one man having prominence over a church was a concern similar to the 3 John 9-12 reference to Diotrophes.

The idea was raised that with the proper hierarchy one man could oversee a large church similar to the advice that Moses received from his father-in-law in Exodus 18:13-27. However, the concern was expressed about one-man leadership where the leader claims to be a Moses over the people. Since Moses was a type of Christ and not of a professional
clergyman, this is blasphemy (Deuteronomy 18:15, Acts 3:22 and 7:37).

Leadership in the church should be different from the world.

“But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man
did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Matthew 20:25-28

3.     What is a love relationship with Jesus?

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” [John 14:21]

The Church is Jesus’ bride, not an institution, but people.

A love relationship with Jesus can be thought of as between an individual and the Lord, but also it is important to see our love relationship as between the assembly of believers and Jesus Christ.

To love Jesus is to love His body.

Agape love is to act without regard to getting anything in return.

Love God and love people.

James teaches that true saving faith results in helping people in need.

“If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.” [1 John 4:20, 21]

Abide in the Vine [John 15:5]

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us.” [1 John 4:18, 19]

Those who wait upon the Lord… [Isaiah 40:31]

Our God personally cares about individuals such as Hagar in Genesis 16 and 21.

4.     What does the Bible teach us about pragmatism?

Pragmatism: a practical way of solving problems. Results oriented. What ever works. Non-ideological: make it work. A philosophy and a movement where the significance of an idea is determined by its practical results. Utilitarianism. Actions based on objective scientific judgment. Leadership by technocrat.

In a sense, following Jesus is pragmatic. If the ultimate end is self-interest, one could say the Christian is pragmatic because heaven with the Lord is the result. But to be pragmatic in that sense requires one to believe in an existence beyond this life.

When Satan accused God by saying that the only reason Job serves God is what he can get from God, God proved Satan a liar by demonstrating His manifold wisdom through Job’s life as He does through the life of the Church [Ephesians 3:10, 11].

From an earthly point of view the life a Christian is not pragmatic as we are commanded to deny our self, pick up our cross and follow Jesus. [Matthew 16:24]

Pragmatism, in its normal sense, is about solving the world’s problems and it is not about eternal things. Pragmatism is about “whatever works”. This is the opposite of faith in many cases.

Faith is exemplified by Joshua stepping into the Jordan [Joshua 3] or Peter stepping out of the boat [Matthew 14].

We are called to walk by faith and not by sight. [2 Corinthians 5:7]

The Lord wants us to be effective in working for a living and helping people.

The following verses were briefly discussed.

“So the master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light. And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in
much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own? “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” Luke 16:9-13

In general, pragmatism is the religion of the world as represented by Esau’s selling his birthright for a meal [Genesis 25], the serpent’s lie [Genesis 3], and the Tower of Babel [Genesis 11].

The world chose Barabbas over Jesus. [Matthew 27]

5.     Is the whole world being deceived? If so, how
shall we respond? If not, why not?

Unbelievers are being deceived.

The whole world is being deceived.

“And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:7-9

“Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.” Revelation 19:20

Deception occurs among professing Christians. [1 John 3:7, Galatians 1 and 6:7, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11]

The world is being deceived by the religion of pragmatism.

“But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” [2 Thessalonians 3:12-15]

“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.” [Matthew 28:18-20]

 

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Basic Beliefs as a Basis for Discussion

The intent for these Fellowship Forums is for Evangelical Christians to discuss important things. The basic beliefs that are assumed for Evangelicals include:

Jesus is God and is the only way to be saved.
God is one God in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, by His grace, and not of our own works (including baptism).

Fellowship Forum is not the place to debate the above beliefs. If you want to discuss these things, please email me at jimbaum@procinwarn.com.

May the Lord give us wisdom!

Jim Baumgaertel

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April 2011 Fellowship Forum

[We apologize that this was never written. Maybe we shall discuss these topics again sometime.]

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No meeting in July 2011

Due to Steve and Patti moving and Baumgaertel family goings on, we’ve decided to not meet in July. We thank the Lord for all you who we’ve fellowshipped with and, Lord willing, we can meet again in October. Jim

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January 2011 Fellowship Forum

Summary

Ten people were in attendance and participation was encouraging, insightful, and brotherly.

A new feature of this FF were written contributions sent prior to the meeting from brethren unable to attend from as far away as Alaska. These were read as part of the discussion.

[1] What place does Israel as a nation have, if any, in the biblical plans and heart of God? What is the relationship of Israel and the church presently and in the future?

There is yet a covenant between God and Israel [Is] in which God will make them a blessing to all nations as sharing the gospel witness to the Messiah. Is is an instrument in God’s hand, one which has a future plan and purpose in the world.

The church and Is are distinct entities, having different origins and comprised of differing constituents. Is was chosen as a nation most importantly to bring Christ into the world [Rom.9:5]. A distinction must be made between Is as a national entity descending from Abraham via natural linage, and spiritual Is – those who truly have placed their trust and faith in Jesus Christ.

Though having the advantage of being entrusted with the Word of God, the glory, and covenants [Rom.3:1,2; 9:4], this earthly privilege will not profit them unless they put their faith in the Lord Jesus through whom all men must come to the Father regardless of their national origin.

The church as the body of Christ [comprised of both Jews and Gentiles] is a mystery not previously known [Eph.3:4-6] and is therefore not Is. As such, the church does not inherit the promises made to Is as a national entity. Neither is the church spiritual Is or the Is of God. Those terms refer to true believers in the Lord Jesus whose national origin is as physical descendents of Abraham [see Rom.2:28,29; Gal.6:15,16].

Others present did not concur with this assessment of the three passages cited in the previous paragraph. True Is is comprised of both Jew and Gentile who are Jews inwardly by the Spirit and are thus spiritual Is. The passage in Rom.11 refers to believing Jews as the rich root of the olive tree and the Gentiles as being grafted into that. Thus v.26 is a reference, not to a future unbelieving Is repenting and being saved, but to believing Jews and believing Gentiles being saved as the one true spiritual Is.

Christ Himself made the distinction between those who were physically of Is and those who were true spiritual believers among them. The nation who had the Word of God in their possession did not necessarily profit thereby [Jn.5:45-47]. Is who had the Lord as their God, did not believe Him – Israelites in the flesh, but not in the Spirit [Jn.8:54,55]. Actually, many within Is nationally were of their father, the devil [Jn.8:44].

These are the ones who killed the prophets, crucified the Lord Jesus, and persecuted the church; they are not pleasing to God though physical descendents of Abraham and wrath has come upon them utterly [I Thess.2:14-16].

Nevertheless, when the Deliverer Christ Jesus comes again, all Is at that time will be saved when they look in repentance upon Him whom they have pierced and their sins are washed away [Rom.11:25-27; Zech.12:10- 13:1].

So presently, “from the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable” [Rom.11:28,29].

[2] What is the biblical perspective on retirement, especially in light of Luke 12:16-21 as it relates to anticipating a life of leisure?

God’s design is for a man to first be a child, then a man, a husband, a father, and an elder. During his physically capable years, the man is to provide for the needs of his family [I Tim.5:8; 2 Cor.12:14]. When he is no longer able to do so, it is then the responsibility of the children to care for their aged parents [I Tim.5:4; Mk.7:10-13]. We see examples of this in the patriarchs noted in the book of Genesis and in Christ’s own care of His mother [Jn.19:26,27]. A horse that is no longer able to work is sustained and cared for by those it has served.

A man of maturity and wisdom is of great value to his family, the church, and community. Retirement from a vocation should be viewed as affording more time to serve God. A real servant of Christ doesn’t look forward to a life of leisure and self indulgence.

We should give all to serve Christ and there is always profitable work to be done. The ant diligently stores up in the present for being sustained in the future day when that cannot then be done [Prov.6:7-11; 30:24-25]. The sluggard chooses leisure now and will want in the coming day.

The issue of bigger barns in Lk.12 is one of trust – What am I dependent upon and for what purpose? In Mt.6:19 the motivation for storing up treasure is the key as the Scriptures elsewhere declare that “a good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children” [Prov.13:22].

We are repeatedly warned in Scripture about the deceitfulness of riches and the snare they are to the soul whose heart is set upon them. Wanting to become rich is a foolish and harmful desire that plunges men into ruin and destruction. Rather, if we have food and covering, with these we shall be content [I Tim.6:6-11].

The Word of God commends the blessing of children and warns against the pursuit of wealth, leisure, and luxury. The USA culture reverses this – warning about having many children while promoting the love of money, the root of all evil.

[3] Were OT believers forgiven of sins and did they enjoy the blessings of salvation as Christians know them, specifically commenting on Rom.3:25 and Acts 17:30 in these regards?

Yes, OT believers were forgiven of sins as David declares in Ps.32:1,2: “How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered! How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity…” Abraham had the gospel preached to him beforehand, he believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness [Gal.3:8; Gen.15:6]. Job confidently confessed: “I know that my Redeemer lives” [Job 19:25]. And from earliest times men called upon the name of the Lord [Gen.4:26].

Sacrifice was a picture of Christ’s sacrifice to come. Everything in salvation depends upon the pivotal work of the Lord Jesus on the cross in which He paid the price for the sins of the world. The OT believers trusted God to justify them and cleanse their hearts by faith as do NT believers. We put our confidence in God who is merciful to not condemn us for our sins when we put our trust in Him. This was the testimony of those with faith noted in Hebrews 11.

Salvation is broad term describing many aspects of God’s work in making the soul of a man right with Himself. Justification and forgiveness are some of the initial aspects of that. Forgiveness precedes transformation as is illustrated in Mk.2:9-12 where the man’s rising and walking were the outward demonstration of the inward and unseen work of forgiveness. We are saved by grace through faith and good works then follow as a consequence of that [Eph.2:8-10].

John 3:14: “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up” illustrates the instantaneous work of salvation where Israel had to simply by faith look and live.

However, there are certainly differences between the salvation experienced by OT and NT believers, perhaps most evident in the work of the Holy Spirit in both. Certainly, OT believers were empowered to obey the Lord as Heb.11:8 declares: “By faith Abraham obeyed…”

Jesus said to His disciples that they knew the Holy Spirit since He was abiding with them and would later be in them [Jn.14:17]. The promise is made in the OT that God will pour out His Spirit to make His words known to any who will hearken [Prov.1:23; Neh.9:20].

In former times, God “passed over sins” [Rom.3:25] and “overlooked times of ignorance” [Acts 17:30], not in the sense that they were forgiven or held guiltless, but in that God did not immediately execute His judgment upon them as was done in the case of the world at the time of Noah or of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. These expressions indicate a stay of execution until sentence is passed and judgment falls. There is no biblical teaching of universalism, i.e. that all men will eventually be forgiven and received into the blessings of eternal life despite their beliefs and behavior in this life.

[4,5] What is the NT order for church government, particularly: [a] is there to be a hierarchy in the church of senior pastor, assistant pastor, etc. and, if so, what authority do they have in relationship to other believers? [b] What are the roles, responsibilities, and qualifications of Elders/Overseers/Pastors? [c] How are decisions to be made in a church/assembly, including that of discipline?

There is a fair degree of flexibility in the leadership structure of the local body.  Elders are peers who meet the scriptural qualifications for office as noted in I Tim.3. But beyond that, how they organize is a function of their different gifts and the unique makeup of their local fellowships.

There are two purposes for the church, as the pillar and support of truth [I Tim.3:15] and for the building up of God’s people [Eph.4:12]. This occurs in a number of ways through teaching, fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer [Acts 2:42].

There is no biblical directive for there to be a hierarchy of leaders lording it over the assembly. The organizational chart is pretty flat; Christ is the Head and then there are the rest of us. The issue is this: Who is to be servant of all? So Christ is the foundation and then there are all the members eager to be servants of all. Service is the basis of leading the brethren: Simple.

Denominations do not have a true plumbline on what the church is. If there are two or more gathered in Jesus’ name, He is there. So a husband and wife can even be considered to be a church in a limited sense. There are differences between the church and ministries.

The church is what we are as members of one another in Christ’s body. Ministries are specific individuals, groups, and organizations that are performing a particular work. False prophets, leaders, or “pastors” need to be confronted and corrected by true leaders in love with the truth [Tit.1:9-11].

The rulers of the nations lord it over their subordinates; Christ’s true leaders are to be unlike that altogether [Lk.22:25-27]. Both Paul and Peter describe the work of overseers/elders as that of shepherding [Acts 20:17f; I Pet.5:1-3]. A true leader will not hesitate to expose and magnify his own weaknesses in humility as an example to the brethren.

The term government implies organization, rule, authority, and implementation: not terms conducive with the NT pattern for the church and leadership. The church is neither a democracy nor an autocracy. A lord dictates whereas a biblical elder sets an example by treating others as brothers – not as servants or employees. He persuades, but doesn’t coerce as did Paul who did not dominate though he commanded without forcing others to comply.

There exists no distinction of clergy and laity in the NT. The leader is to equip and train others for the work of ministry. In the local assembly there are to be a plurality of leaders rather than a single individual who directs its course. An Elder does not hold an office or occupy a position, but is someone who is reliable, experienced, knowledgeable, wise, and godly.

Decisions are not to be made unilaterally by elders apart from the brethren. Ideally there are to be organic contributions and consensus through discussion by showing mutual deference out of respect of families for one another [Rom.12:10].

Acts 6 demonstrates such a situation. The Apostles did not dictate but rather guided through wisdom. The brethren concurred, chose a godly solution to the problem through the counsel received, and their decision was received and endorsed by the leaders without lording it over them. The selection of seven, all of whom had Greek names, shows the sensitive deference in humility that the brethren had in resolving this matter. No advantage was taken by one group over the other as love prevailed.

A concern in matters of discipline is this: When do we stop covering a situation that we are aware of and begin speaking of it to others without slandering? Mt.18:15-20 would suggest that the discussion with the erring brother is not on a one-time basis, but rather repeated.

Discipline is not a matter for the leadership, but for the church itself: leaders are present but not presiding or preempting. Things that cause friction between brothers ought to be discussed lovingly in meekness so fellowship is unhindered. The purpose of such discussion and/or discipline is to restore, not to shame or ostracize.

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October 2010 Fellowship Forum

Fellowship Forum October 10 Summary

Ten people were in attendance and participation was encouraging, insightful, and brotherly.

[1] What are the biblical ways to help someone [or ourselves] to love, forgive, and adjust through very traumatic experiences such as abuse, betrayal, death, divorce, and equally devastating situations in life?

            David committed grievous sin with respect to Uriah and Bathsheba from which he was forgiven by the mercies of God according to 2 Samuel 12:13: “Then David said to Nathan, ‘I have sinned against the Lord.’  And Nathan said to David, ‘The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.’”

            True as this was, nevertheless, David acknowledges in Ps.51:3: “For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.”  Forgiveness may be full but memories are not erased thereby and may be triggered by various situations, sights, sounds, words, smells, etc.  There is nothing we can do to eradicate these memories, but it is possible to remember wrongs without bitterness, malice, hatred, anger, and vengeance.

            Devastating experiences can present a barrier to developing deep loving relationships for fear of passing through the same heartaches again.  But we must not allow these to prevent us from obeying God in the present.  We must obey the Lord regardless of what we feel.

            Being other-oriented is Christ-like and leads us out of the misery of self-occupation [Phil.2:3-5].  The Word of God is our ground and stay to get us back on track and cannot be neglected when passing through difficulties.

            Clichés do not help the suffering and sorrowful; silent sympathy may be much more significant.  We need to know and embrace the significance of Romans 8:28 before days of deep darkness descend upon us: “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”

            I Corinthians 16:14: “Let all that you do be done in love” – even with respect to enemies.  Love is an act of the will to what is right, loving, and best regardless of personal cost and despite how others respond.  No matter what evils have been done to us, we must do what is right by going forward – turning the other cheek, giving our coat, or going the second mile.

            “Inner healing” via a therapeutic path is founded upon a misguided notion that we as people are good and whole needing to be restored to our untainted state prior to whatever evil has befallen us as “victims.” On the contrary, the Scriptures present the reality that we are all “damaged goods” – full of sin, corruption, and far from pristine.  While not minimizing others’ sorrows, we must assist them to obey and glorify God in the present though it may be quite painful and distressing for them to do so.

            We are directed to pursue peace with all men [Heb.12:14].  “If possible, so far as it depends upon you, be at peace with all men” [Rom.12:18], and, “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts” [Col.3:15].

            We are to “bear one another’s burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ” [Gal.6:2].       

[2] What are the contrasts noted in Mark 7:1-23 and their significance as related to the heart of man?

            Verse 2 informs us that “some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.”  Some washed and some didn’t, without condemnation by either Christ or fellow disciples.  It was the Pharisees who raised objections based on their scruples. 

            Jesus clearly stated in Mt.15:20: “to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”  Yet some of His disciples observed this religious tradition and Christ did not compel them to abandon it.  All of us have backgrounds and traditions that we have not thought through their implications.

            However, traditions and the commandments of God are different matters.  The commands of God must be obeyed while those of men not necessarily so.  The Lord Jesus Himself obeyed and observed the Law as given by God yet was fulfilling the ceremonial aspects of it by stages until completely fulfilled at the cross.

            The Law as given to Israel was in three aspects: the moral, civil, and ceremonial.  The moral law applies to every man in every culture in every generation.  The moral aspects of the law stem directly from the inherent nature of God Himself.  It would never be possible for there to be a world where untruth was acceptable, where impurity was sanctioned. 

The civil law governed various aspects of Israel’s penal code as a nation and had reference to building codes, sanitation, punishment for various crimes, etc.  The ceremonial regulations governed their worship, diet, festivals, and some aspects of their dress.

            These ceremonial aspects are what have been fulfilled by Christ and thus have no direct external application to the Christian.  “Thus He declared all foods clean” [Mk.7:19] which became the basis of God’s injunction to Peter and to the church at large thereafter in Acts 10:10-15. 

The civil law does not apply to the church as it is not a national entity as was Israel and the church enforces no penal code as such.  The moral law applies to every Christian and has not been done away with.  The NT believer keeps the law as it is fulfilled in Christ, but not necessarily in its external requisites for the nation of Israel.

            Even though David and Hezekiah did not comply with the outward regulations imposed upon Israel, they nevertheless kept the Word of God which is incontrovertible and must be obeyed as fulfilled in Christ [see Mt.12:1-7 and 2 Chron.30:17-20].  

            The things that defile us are the things we do, not the things that are done to us by others.  In this sense, we are not victims.  It is out of our own hearts that evil proceeds, not that things come into us from without that defile us.

            The solution is to fix our eyes upon Jesus, recognizing our own inner evilness of heart and die to self.  The life which we live is that of faith having been raised with Christ from death.

[3]  What is the purpose of money as it relates to godliness and Christian service?

            Luke 16:9 outlines the basic purpose of earthly resources entrusted into our hands.  “And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the mammon of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.”  Essentially money is to be utilized in order to influence people for eternal purposes.  That is, our earthly goods should be utilized for the blessing and good of others by assisting the poor and contributing to legitimate gospel work. 

In this way by selfless living we are looking to the everlasting benefit of others rather than squandering resources on self-centered interests. Then, when this life is over, there will be people in heaven to greet us who will be forever grateful for our sacrificial and selfless manner of life in this world.  And in this sense, our use of money is a testimony to the world, either positively or negatively.

The principle of Christian giving is stated in 2 Cor.9:7: “Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

It is godly and obedient to utilize money for the needs of one’s own family in particular [I Tim.5:8] as well as for the relief of needy brethren [Acts 11:27-30].

Certainly we cannot serve two masters and being anxious about daily necessities reflects negatively upon God’s care of His children and shows lack of trust on our part [Mt.6:19-34].  Discussion followed regarding the practical outworking of not storing up treasure upon earth.  In what sense is this directive to be taken, since even Christ Himself kept a money bag among the apostles?  No hard and fast conclusions were drawn regarding this.

It was agreed that if resources are entrusted to one’s use, generosity ought to characterize their use without undue attachment or fixing one’s hope upon their uncertainty [see I Tim.6:17-19].  Our attitude should be to even joyfully accept the seizure of earthly goods, knowing that we have a better and more enduring portion above [Heb.10:34].

Even in poverty, grace can abound to the help and relief of others, though this is not intended to lead to one’s own lack and suffering, but rather by way of equality [2 Cor.8:1-15].

[4]  What role, if any, does doctrine play as a basis of Christian fellowship?

            A Christian is noted for receiving “the love of the truth so as to be saved” [2 Thess.2:10].  A Christian is inclined towards and embraces truth as it is unfolded to his heart.  It is not that an individual must comprehensively understand and agree with particular doctrines in order to fellowship with other believers.  Assembly gatherings rallying around various doctrinal camps is a reproach to Christ and presents man-determined criteria for association [I Cor.1:10-13; 3:3-5].

            A primary concern when evaluating sound doctrine is whether it leads to practical godliness.  “The goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” [I Tim.1:5].  The contrast to sound doctrine is the multi-faceted deeds of wickedness proceeding from untruth as noted in I Tim.1:8-11.

            Sound doctrine is described as proper godly response to truth evidenced in the behavior of the recipients as in Titus 2:1-10.  Indeed, the grace of God instructs us to “deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live sensibly, righteously, and godly in the present age” since the purpose of Christ giving Himself for us was to “redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.  These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority” [Tit.2:11-15].

            This is the doctrine that fellowship is based upon, walking “in the light as He Himself is in the light; we have fellowship with one another” [I Jn.1:7].  This is quite in contrast to wrangling about words which is unprofitable and worthless which leads to the ruin of hearers [2 Tim.2:14] and that sick interest in controversial questions and disputes about words that results in “envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth” [I Tim.6:3-5].

            All of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is important and bears upon all of life and we should not artificially relegate truth into categories such as primary and secondary, essential and non-essential, etc.  Therefore we need patience to “speak the truth in love” [Eph.4:15] all the while maintaining the “unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” [Eph.4:1f] as we grow and mature into the fullness Christ [Eph.4:13].

            Our fellowship should be in association with those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart in their pursuit of righteousness, faith, love and peace [2 Tim.2:22].

            A hypothetical situation was raised about the proper response to a brother who enters a fellowship of believers and insists that all must speak in tongues in order to properly progress in spirituality.  What should be done by the assembly along with the elders to address this issue while not unnecessarily offending or driving the brother away or causing division? 

It was agreed that such situations present a matter to pray for wisdom in how to proceed along the lines of 2 Tim.2:23-25 [though this passage was not specifically cited in the discussion]: “The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with meekness correcting those who are in opposition…”   

[5] How did the NT writers interpret and utilize the OT Scriptures?

            Matthew chapter 2 illustrates several ways in which this was done.  In verses 5 and 6 the OT passage was interpreted in a literal, historical, and grammatical way: the prophet said that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem which was literally fulfilled.

            Verse 15, however, disregards the historical and literal context of Hosea 11:1 which refers to Israel as a nation at the time of their exodus out of Egypt.  Rather, it was fulfilled by way of spiritual analogy by Christ. Israel, God’s chosen, suffered under the hand of a wicked tyrant who decreed a sentence of death upon the male children.  Christ, God’s chosen, suffered under the hand of Herod who had decreed the same and therefore had to be delivered from Egypt as well.

            Rachel weeping for her children in verses 17 and 18 is also an illustration of fulfillment by way of spiritual analogy.  It wasn’t literally Rachel who wept and the historical settings were centuries apart and referred to different events.  But the events were closely associated in the essence of the grief and distress that came upon both.

            In verse 23 it is stated that: “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets: ‘He shall be called a Nazarene.’”  There is no such prophesy recorded in the OT using these words.  Significantly, however, it is said that this fulfilled what was spoken of through the prophets, not through the prophet.  In other words, this contains a synopsis of what the prophets spoke regarding the Christ – He shall be a Nazarene – despised, rejected of men, and of ill-repute, for this certainly was the reputation of Nazareth [see Jn.1:46].

            The OT narrative may contain spiritual illustration beyond the significance of the literal and historical events, persons, places, and things recorded in the text.  All of the Scripture was written for our learning [Rom.15:4] and the literal historical record often also foreshadows truth about the Lord Jesus as noted in I Cor.10:1-11.  “That Rock was Christ” [I Cor.10:4].

            When the Lord wrote of the care of oxen, it was not primarily for their sakes; it was for our spiritual benefit and learning, yes, “altogether for our sakes” [I Cor.9:8-11].  Acts 15:14-18 speaks about God raising up the tabernacle of David which was fulfilled, not literally in an earthly tent, but in raising up and establishing the church.

            God revealed secrets and illustrations to the NT writers and God reveals spiritual analogies and illustrations to us as well by His Spirit.  The guiding principle in such interpretation is whether a valid correspondence exists between the historical OT reference and what it is illustrating.  Narrative is to be interpreted by precept – by the clear declarations of Scripture – not precept developed from the narrative accounts of the Bible.

            Many OT quotations contained in the NT are not taken from the original Hebrew of the OT but rather from the Greek translation known as the Septuagint [LXX].  An example of this is found in Rom.3:10-18 which is a direct quote of Ps.14:1-3 in the LXX.  However, the Hebrew of Ps.14:1-3 only vaguely resembles what was quoted in Rom.3. 

            This does not constitute the LXX as an inspired translation in itself, but simply demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is free to express eternal truth in the language of His choosing. We learn from this that translations into other languages can rightly be referred to as the Word of God and are capable of conveying eternal truth into every culture.

Summary submitted by Steve Phillips

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July 2010 Fellowship Forum

Fellowship Forum July Summary

Twelve people were in attendance and participation was encouraging, insightful, and brotherly.

[1] What constitutes good works, how are they performed, and what is their relationship to grace?

Eph.2:8-10 inform us that grace – God’s full provision for every need – is the source of all blessing and good works. They originate in His enablement and are engaged in by us according to God’s pre-ordained purpose for each believer. Walking in those good works that He has prepared beforehand is the sure evidence that one has indeed been saved by grace, and not by his own futile efforts to perform good.

Good works are a sympathetic working together on a common goal. God’s purpose is not to put “rules” on us, but engage with Him to do the things He does. Rules are the trellis upon which the branches grow and are supported.

What we do with our works is enter into fellowship with God in doing what He would do as in our bodies – loving as He loves, etc. Such works are the result of the Holy Spirit working through us. As such, self works originating in human effort, motive, and ingenuity are not good works.

The man whose sins were forgiven in Mark 2:3-12, also got up and walked. That was the tangible evidence both that Jesus has authority to forgive sins and that this man’s sins were forgiven. So it is that our walking in good works is the visible confirmation that we have been forgiven by Christ.

Good works will be judged according to whether they are good or bad [2 Cor.5:10], by our motives for doing so [I Cor.4:5], by our words: whether helpful or hurtful, gracious or offensive, truthful or false [Mt.12:35-37], and by our ways – the perspective and value system from which they have been performed [Ezek.7:3].

Numerous passages speak about the necessity, blessing, and testimony of good works. Jesus “went about doing good” [Acts 10:38]. Godly widows were known for good works of a habitual practice of Christ’s life being expressed in hospitality, assisting those in distress, and bringing up children – a daily reality rather than a periodic activity.  Those endowed with material resources in this life are to be “rich in good works” [I Tim.6:18] expressed in willing and generous sharing.

The bride of Christ as described in Rev.19 is clothed in fine linen fabricated from the righteous deeds of the saints performed in this life. God is at work in every believer to produce both the willing and the doing of these good works [Phi.2:13]. Believers are to engage in good works “to meet pressing needs” [Tit.3:14]. One of the purposes for Christians’ gathering is to stimulate one another “to love and good deeds” [Heb.10:24].

Such good works are aspects of the fruit whereby testimony is gained as to whether we belong to Christ or not. We, however, should guard against drawing unwarranted and hasty conclusions based upon our own partial understanding and observations; Lot, though having little to commend himself in the Genesis narrative, was nevertheless a “righteous man” [2 Pet.2:7-9]. Cornelius, though commendable through good works in many ways, was nevertheless an unbeliever in need of Christ [see Acts 10:1-4; 11:13,14].

We may comment upon behavior and admonish one another as to whether particular deeds, words, or thoughts are consistent with being Christian, but we ought not to conclude and state that the person himself is not a Christian if behavior is amiss. That is beyond our scope of judgment, though questions may be raised as to the legitimacy of profession when deeds are consistently ungodly.

[2] What are the practical implications individually and for the assembly that Jesus is Head of the body, High Priest over the house of God, and Foundation of the temple?

Christ is the foundation upon which all is to be built, not upon any man or ministry: as Head He guides His people along the way, and as our great Priest we enjoy unending acceptance in the courts of heaven.

The identical life of Christ courses through every member of the body enlivening each with His vitality. As such, all impulse to action comes from the directives of the Head to each member individually. The tasks and responsibilities are governed directly by Christ and not by intermediaries. The Head coordinates the activities of His own body according to His will.

Competition, thoughts of superiority, and ignoring of others are a practical denial of the reality of Christ as Head and we as members of one another in the same body. Diotrephes in 3 John demonstrates the practical evil that ensues when one attempts to have first place in the assembly rather than acknowledging in practice the true headship of Christ.

The Lord Jesus faithfully and unendingly represents each and every believer equally and without interruption before the throne of God. Thus each believer has equal access to a throne of grace in order to obtain mercy and help in time of need. Heaven is open, prayer is welcomed, and assistance is certain to all who call upon the Lord in sincerity and truth.

[3] Are Yoga/meditation and biblical Christianity compatible?

Biblical meditation consists of carefully reflecting upon the truth of the Scriptures with an active inquiring mind. Joshua 1:8 describes meditation in terms of “chewing the cud” as a sheep re-chews the same food in order to extract all the nutrients therein.

Yoga is a technique originating in eastern religions designed to reduce stress, obtain inner peace, and self-control. As such, it is a counterfeit of the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer. The Holy Spirit leads, speaks to our hearts, and grants wisdom to those who ask.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace…self-control [Gal.5:22,23], alongside of which, no other “law,” spiritual exercise, or technique need be appendaged.

Christ as Shepherd of His flock speaks, and His sheep hear His voice and follow Him [Jn.10:1-5]. His anointing teaches us about all things and is true; we are to abide in it, not in eastern meditation techniques [I Jn.2:27].

Philippians 4:6-8 is the biblical answer to anxiety, stress, peace of heart, and self-control while exposing Yoga/eastern meditation for the counterfeit that it is: “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your minds dwell on these things, and the God of peace will be with you.”

[4] What is to be a Christian’s response to wounding of soul?

Meekness learned from Christ is to be our response [Mt.11:29]. Meekness is that disposition of soul that receives all as from the hand of God without complaint: even the evils and affronts of men permitted by Him for our everlasting good. Joseph demonstrated such when he confessed to his wicked brothers: “You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good” [Gen.50:20].

God ordains suffering/wounds to bring forth glory through them. When love prevails in our hearts, “it does not take into account a wrong suffered” [I Cor.13:5]. In the account of Philemon and Onesimus, Paul says to even charge any wrongs Onesimus had done to his own account, demonstrating not only forgiveness, but willingness to make restitution for things that he was not responsible for in order to live in peace and harmony.

Other passages emphasize this such as I Cor.6:5-8. Here we are enjoined to even suffer wrong rather than pressing our claims and “rights” against a brother who even may be in the wrong.

I Peter 2:20-24 tells us that suffering for doing what is right finds favor with God. We are called to bear reproach and injustices even as Christ did, who uttered no threats, reviling, and who did not sin when mistreated by the hands of men. He rather “kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously.”

[5] What are the practical implications individually and for the assembly that Jesus is Lord of His servants, Bridegroom of the bride, and Shepherd of the flock?

As Shepherd of the flock, men are not to lord it over their fellows as do the nations [Lk.22:25]. Men are to lead as did Christ, by example and the persuasive power of truth: not by coercion, intimidation, or sanctions. This is the pattern we see in the apostles and their teaching in passages such as Acts 20:17-32 and I Peter 5:1-5.

As Lord of His servants, we are bought with a price and therefore do not belong to ourselves [I Cor.6:19,20]. Thus we have no rights and can make no demands. Our only concern is to know and perform the will of our Master. No men therefore have the right or responsibility to dictate to our conscience and rule over our souls by their own authority or decrees.

Our love and allegiance as a bride is to One: to the Lord Jesus, our Bridegroom. We submit, trust, depend upon Him and keep ourselves pure for His delight and companionship. Our hearts’ affection is reserved for Him exclusively and not poured out upon other lovers.

Summary submitted by Steve Phillips

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